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Neighborhood Meeting Scheduled to Address Massive Gun Range

Earlier in the week, I-Team Reporter Mark Sayre told you about a new shooting range going up in the northern part of Las Vegas.

The range has been under construction for years, but new homeowners say they were never told of the giant park going up in their backyards.

Now, homeowners are organizing a meeting. The meeting is scheduled for Wednesday at 6:30 p.m. at the Aliante Library near Aliante and Deer Springs. It is open to neighbors affected by the park.

Eyewitness News will talk to residents and will be covering the story on Wednesday.

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 12th, 2008 at 5:32 pm and is filed under Clark County, guns. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

 
106 Comments »

  1. If these people truly have a problem with the gun range they should complain to the person or persons that sold the thier home. That is who should have told them the range was being built.
    This is just anti-gun Mark Sayre starting trouble where there isn’t any again. He did the same thing last week when he did a story on home based gun repair shops/dealers.
    How about telling the whole story for once Mark, not just the parts that advance your anti-gun agenda.

    Comment by Joe — February 13, 2008 @ 1:23 pm

  2. Mark i’m moving to Las Vegas from New Jersey the main reason being the construction of this range. I enjoy competive and casual shooting. I be moving as soon as my condo is finished and can’t wait for the Clark County Shooting facility to open.

    Comment by Frank — February 13, 2008 @ 5:06 pm

  3. I oppose this gun range, as I feel it simply encourages gun ownership, something that most civilized countries have abandoned, and have much lower violent crime rates thereby.

    Comment by David — February 13, 2008 @ 8:01 pm

  4. All of the elected politicians in Las Vegas are in cahoots with this park. They receive NRA money for their campaigns and are bought and paid for by the special interests. We need to get the whole sorry lot of them out of office. Truly a sad situation for the homeowners.

    Comment by Bill — February 14, 2008 @ 12:42 am

  5. The community has already spoken in support of this project years ago. To all the people that failed to perform their due diligence…A lesson could be learned here.

    I would also like to add as a response to “Comment by David - February 13, 2008 @ 8:01 pm”
    David, please reference to “civilized countries” you know that have “abandoned” civilian gun ownership so I can gather the information to inform you of how misinformed you are. Your “feelings” have nothing to do with it. Think for a moment to how your mother or wife or “partner” would defend themselves in a home invasion situation. Even if you had time to dial 911 it takes the police several minutes to respond and stop the threat. That is SEVERAL minutes those nasty criminals have with your children and wife; providing the criminal(s) did not use the element of surprise and get between you and the phone. My point is that guns do not encourage violent crime, they simply level the playing field. Civilian gun ownership in America is what prevents events like those happening in Chad and Niger from happening here. Violent gangs can’t roam the city killing at will because the public would come out and stop it. Well, the good law abiding citizens I know anyway.

    Comment by Jeremy — February 14, 2008 @ 2:07 am

  6. The real issue is the people did not research their area before moving in. This has been an on going project for years now. This should be no suprise unless one did not research to see what is being planned. Go figure we are in a time of blame everyone but your self. If One fails blame the government or those around or beg for government to assist you. This needs to stop Lick your wounds and suffer and learn for next time. The comment about Drunk hunters is idiotic. Ranges have very strict rules.

    Comment by cjones — February 14, 2008 @ 7:02 am

  7. Name a civilized country whos crime rate is not out of control due to criminals, key word criminals that are violent. I suggest looking up gun free zones and seeing they do not work. Never have and never will. Instead mass killings take place. England mass gun control - proven it does not work, Austraila - Gun control - proven it does nto work, Canada - parts of have no crime due to the number of guns per house hold is greater then five, they do not even lock their doors.

    Comment by cjones — February 14, 2008 @ 7:12 am

  8. the gun range followed the rules.the homeowners moved in afterwards.your builder or seller should have told you.go after them.not the gun owners.your comments on drunken hunters and crying over stray bullets hitting kids is simply sensationalism to promote your anti-gun agenda.a gun range is needed and will benefit the area in safety.

    Comment by michael roe — February 14, 2008 @ 7:17 am

  9. drunken hunters, Crazy as Iraqui terriorists. Folks this place has been in planning for years. Talk to your home builders if they didnt metion it to you that may constitute fraud. But to call responsible gun owners drunken hunters and terriorist is just irresponsible. Like it or not I suppourt the range, it is needed facility. Just because you where negligent in purchasing youir home without checking first is not our fault.

    Comment by Pete — February 14, 2008 @ 7:42 am

  10. I personally think that the people out there should have researched the area a little better before buying their homes. That gun range has been in the works for years, and I personally know that their city councilman has done a great deal in attempting to notify all of the people in the surrounding area. They bought houses in that area without checking city records and plans. It is their own fault.

    Comment by Matt — February 14, 2008 @ 8:03 am

  11. I live in Iron Mountain Ranch, about 2 miles from the proposed range site, and I have no problem with it. I knew about the range being built there, before I bought my home, because I researched the area! This is just another example of people not “doing their homework, and not paying attention prior to making one of the most important purchase decisions in their life - buying a home. This situation is just like people not reading their HOA CC&R’s, before buying their home, then thinking they have the right to complain about them afterwards, or not reading their purchase contract, concerning adjustable interest rates, then expecting the government to bail them out when their payment goes up.

    Comment by Jim — February 14, 2008 @ 10:09 am

  12. I think that living next to an area where law abiding citizens can practice their shooting skills will make that area of town the safest in the valley because the criminals will never know who is armed or not. If you are anti-gun remember criminals don’t buy guns at gun stores but the police and law abiding citizens do.

    Comment by Robert — February 14, 2008 @ 10:18 am

  13. I live in Carmel Canyon, and I was embarrassed by the spectacle at the meeting last night. I understand that there are concerns, but people were rude and degrading to the “invited guests” (that’s what the HOA president referred to the people from the county and elected officials - I hope she doesn’t treat guests in her home the same way) that attended and provided information. The gentleman who opened the meeting gave his “views” of the shooting range, with no backup statistics and a lot of innuendo and inflammatory talk - basically prepping the homeowners before the guests were brought into the room. By the time the people from the county were brought in, people were so misinformed and inflamed that it was impossible for a cordial debate.

    The HOA laid out “rules” for question and answer sessions, the rules weren’t followed by the HOA’s own panel, and then came down on the county representatives when they didn’t follow the “rules”. I agree that there are concerns, but this was nothing more than a witch hunt along with a lynching mob. It was highly embarrassing, and I’m glad I didn’t bring my son to see adults acting the way a lot of my fellow homeowners acted. We probably could have learned a lot more without the hostility, yelling, and rude behavior by many of the homeowners.

    Comment by Marie — February 14, 2008 @ 10:21 am

  14. People who are equate a gun range users with terrorists are ignorant fools. These would be the same people who would support ousting the Marine Recruiting Station in Berkeley, CA.

    Comment by Renee — February 14, 2008 @ 10:29 am

  15. It would appear that public knowledge on this issue is very low. How can you hold a “public meeting” at a public location and say it is for the poor homeowners only? This range has been in the works for years, way before there were houses in the area. Public ranges permote the safe use of firearms.

    Comment by Just George — February 14, 2008 @ 10:35 am

  16. How much will it cost and who is paying for it? Of course we have money for this and none for education.

    Comment by Barry — February 14, 2008 @ 11:16 am

  17. A shooting range should be built far out of town where no one lives. As the town grows the homes will start to get closer to the range. The range was there first and should be respected. If a new range is built near existing homes it is a bad idea. I will be moving to Las Vegas later this year and will bring all my guns and ammo; so another NRA member is on the way. Paul in Mound, MN

    Comment by Paull Washa — February 14, 2008 @ 11:30 am

  18. My husband and I are both avid handgun enthusiasts and have Concealed Carry Permits. I do not feel sorry for these homeowners, there is an old saying, “Let the buyer beware.” If the facility is within a mile of their home then there should have been disclosure, if its more than that, they are out of luck.
    There are so many misconceptions and old wives tales out there about guns and gun owners.
    I choose to own and carry a handgun (I own several) to exercise my Constitutional Right to Bear Arms. I will not ever fall victim to violent crime on the street or in my home, this I can guarantee. If some thug wants to try to victimize me, he or she better be prepared, I am prepared to defend myself. David, you are misinformed. Outlawing gun ownership will only take guns out of the hands of law abiding people and then the only people with guns will be the bad guys! OMG!!! I for one do not want to have to wait on Metro to save me with their poor response rate, you want to depend on them to save you? Go right ahead, pal.
    The gun park is the safest alternative to what another commenter erroneously fears will attract drunken shooting! On the contrary, gun ranges and gun parks are the safest places for gun users to practice their skills under the supervision of a range master who is there to provide assistance and direction if needed and there are very strict rules at a licensed facility, people. You have to sign in and if the clerk thinks you are intoxicated you are not getting on the range. An organized facility is a whole hell of alot better than people going out into the desert and randomly shooting at cans!
    These homeowners are letting their worst fears get the best of their common sense.

    Comment by Elaine — February 14, 2008 @ 3:18 pm

  19. I think Mark Sayre would be much happier in California where the only people observing their Second Amendment rights are labeled criminal. The first article on home based gun smiths and custom gun craftsman completely ignored the facts and this article makes it sound like the new Clark County Shooting Park was veiled in secrecy that would make Area 51 proud.

    I first heard of the park in the early ’90’s and it influenced my decision to move here a decade ago. If the folks are that upset, they can sell their homes at current market rates to those who would love to live near the range. I’ll keep my membership to Boulder City Rifle & Pistol club but will gladly drive out to the new park and shoot, just as I make it a point to stop at Ben Avery whenever I’m in Phoenix.

    My biggest concern as a responsible gun owner has been the risk of one innocent person enjoying the desert for recreation being accidentally shot by another innocent person using the desert for their recreation. Shooting parks diminish those risks and allow Americans who believe in their country and Constitution to congregate and enjoy each others company.

    Comment by CybScryb — February 14, 2008 @ 3:20 pm

  20. The shooting park is a white elephant, overplanned and overbuilt and far too big for the existing shooting public. Future plans for acquiring certain national competitions (e.g., the Grand American) are outrageously extravagant and unrealistic.

    The promoters sold the County a bill of goods. The park will not create new shooters, and the existing shooting public is well served by existing ranges.

    Desertsportsman Rifle and Pistol Club, the clubs in Boulder City, the Nellis AFB range are not being overrun with rifle and pistol shooters or shotgunners, the Las Vegas Gun Club does fine with a fraction of the number of trap and skeet bunkers that have been proposed for the new facility.

    This new facility will just make recreational shooting ever more expensive. I’d look long and hard at what the promoter$ are getting out of this.

    Comment by Jack Fisher — February 14, 2008 @ 4:53 pm

  21. I was at the meeting as a supporter of the range. I’m a native Las Vegan, and have been looking forward to this range since I was a kid. Now its a reality and I’m looking forward to a safe place to teach my own children about our sport.

    For the folks that dont want it, Im sorry, but you should’ve done your homework. I’d suggest selling and moving to a safer place without guns, like Chicago, Washington DC, or New York City. Dont forget to disclose to your buyer there is a gun range going up. Might help convince the reight gun owner that your house is the one they want to live in.

    Comment by Darrell Duggan — February 14, 2008 @ 8:14 pm

  22. Don’t blame the city, county and state legislators for the people in the near by subdivison for not letting them know about the Shooting Park. Blame the developer/real estate agent for not disclosing it in their “Seller’s Real Property Disclosure Form” under Property conditions, improvements and additional information number 11. _any other condition or aspects of the property which materially affect its value or use in an adverse manner”? Also the developer/real estate agent is suppose to disclose near by noise and smell hazards. This includes 215 highway, that brings more noise than this shooting park will, a mile away. Just for the record the disclosure should have nearby airport (North Las Vegas airport) also in this area and smells such as pig farms and sewage plants.

    Maybe the developer/real estate agent felt that the shooting range might increase the value in their homes rather than decrease the value. After all problems of living close to an undevelop area of the desert, brings “noisy ATV”, with the owner drinking beer and celebrating, who knows what and shooting a firearm in the air. The Shooting Park will be a controlled enviornment with regular hour of operation with Certified Range Officers on premise. Check out homes in other states close to a shooting range. Values have gone up. Also look at the people in Summerlin that has a shooting range right across Charleston & 215. They bought their homes with the shooting range already in operation and the 215 built.

    Have you ever help clean up the desert? You can pick up over 60 beer cans and shotgun shells in any given outing. What were these people doing? Partying? Maybe? Going by their pictures, I think the shooting park development will be tasteful and pleasing. They won’t be looking at dirt and safebrush and they will be able to still see the Sheep Mountain Range.

    Comment by Dolores — February 15, 2008 @ 12:23 am

  23. This is SAD… Shame on BLM, the City of Las Vegas, Clark County Officials, the Mayor’s Office, Developers, etc… There should have been mandatory disclosure notifying these residents of this. There are mandatory disclosures in place for casinos, highways, etc, and none for the worlds LARGEST shooting rang!!! Also, What POOR city planning!!! If you city planners knew, that the worlds LARGEST shooting range was in your plans of being built, and you, BLM, City of Las Vegas, Clark County Officials, Mayor’s Office, etc, build a HIGH SCHOOL not even ONE (1) mile away. Students hearing, BANG - BANG, BOOM - BOOM, all day long is NOT good. What kind of sense is that??? Did you notify the parents of students at Shadow Ridge High School??? Further, did you even notify the Las Vegas School District??? With the current history of school shootings in America, a dozen shot just yesterday in the head, Feb 14, 2008, by a student at a Chicago university. So, lets see, future headlines, “HOW MANY SHOT AT SHADOW RIDGE HIGH SCHOOL” today, tomorrow, next week. ARE WE CRAZY!!! Someone has to think here…. and for the person that wrote Blog #7. Vancouver Canada only has about 15 deaths from shootings for the whole year, due to gun laws set in place. “It is against the law to own a gun in Vancouver Canada. I’m NOT an anti gun person, but let us LOOK AT THE FACTS. http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm
    U.S. Leads Richest Nation In Gun Deaths. http://www.guncite.com/cnngunde.html

    Comment by Henry — February 15, 2008 @ 9:37 am

  24. NRA members were at the meeting but was made to stay outside in the hallway. Most of the residents I talked to from Carmel Canyon were embrassed on the why the residents were disrepectful to the people that were trying to get this matter straightened out, especially to Senator Lee. Get your facts straight.

    what does school shooting have anything to do with the shooting park? About shooting on campus and schools, don’t you think we need to ask ourselves, why this is happening? Maybe its peer pressure or our decaying lifestyle and family relating to each other. Also, people ignoring what is right in front of them that some people go undiagnosed for mental illiness.

    Comment by Dolores — February 15, 2008 @ 12:11 pm

  25. I live in Carmel Canyon, I’m a gun owner, I’m starting to compete in marksmanship, I have a CCW permit, and I’m totally for the shooting range. One of the things that Nick (I believe that’s his name - he’s the one that spoke at the beginning of the meeting) told us that Don Turner would try to convince us that the gun range is safer than driving a car. A majority of the crowd laughed at that. Don Turner did end up saying that (and a majority of the crowd laughed AT him); neither one presented any statistics. So, here they are:

    National Shooting Sports Foundation - 2006
    Number of American households with at least one firearm - 47 million

    2005 - Source: CDC
    Unintentional Firearm Deaths and Rates per 100,000 people
    # of Deaths: 789
    Rate per 100,000: .27

    2005 - Source: CDC
    1451 children 14 and younger were killed, 203,000 injured - nearly half were unrestrained
    “motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death among children in the U.S.”

    Source: U.S. Department Transportation - 2005
    Registered vehicles - 245,641,663
    Licensed drivers - 200,665,267
    Fatalities per 100,000 registered vehicles - 17.69
    Fatalities per 100,000 licensed drivers - 21.65

    The numbers speak for themselves - accidental deaths from a gun are significantly lower than getting in a car. I really wish Nick (?) would have researched his numbers before “pumping the crowd up” with bogus accusations. For those that start trying to show gun violence in this blog, how is it related? One has nothing whatsoever to do with the other. Gun ranges do not cause an increase in gun violence in a community. If someone can show us the statistics and prove me otherwise, great.

    Comment by Marie — February 15, 2008 @ 1:02 pm

  26. Sorry…as a follow up to the previous statistics, I reran the numbers on CDC’s website for all gun-related deaths: intentional, unintentional, suicide, undetermined, etc.

    2005:
    Number of deaths: 30,694
    Rate per 100,000: 10.35

    Still lower than getting in a car….

    Comment by Marie — February 15, 2008 @ 1:14 pm

  27. I have tried my hardest to resist responding to the above blogs; however one can only hold their tongue so long. Yes, I am a homeowner within Carmel Canyon. I signed my purchase contract May of 2004; before handing over to my builder the required deposits, I did my due dilligence! Along with a several other homeowners that I have spoken with, all of which have similar stories. When I spoke with planning department in 2004, I was told that the land to the west was designed to be a future equestrian park; the vacant land to the north, behind the community was protected & if it were ever developed it may be a park with walking trails. I closed on my house the later part of 2005. The public notification was posted on Moccasin Road, this is a proposed road with no public access located north of the community. I did attend the homeowners association meeting; the public officals have misinformed us and could not be looking out for all their constituents when they are on the advisory commitee for the shooting park.

    I believe in the freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom to petition, the right to bear arms, etc. I had the right to purchase my home and trust in my public officals along with my builder that the information provided to me was true & accurate, I had the right to choose were I wanted to live and know what would be surrounding me, I took all possible steps to be well informed & still have the maps provided by the city along with the builder.

    The fact that the high school is located at the entrance to the World’s Largest Shooting park is poor planning, it is hard enough to send our children off to school in todays society let alone next to a shooting park.

    Lastly, if you can’t see my point of view, thats your freedom!

    Comment by Lynn — February 15, 2008 @ 3:47 pm

  28. Well said Lynn, and agree 100%

    Comment by Victoria — February 15, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

  29. This land was zoned C-V. Is that the catch, the word “PARK”??? Calling this a Shooting Park, and NOT what it in fact is, a Shooting Range!!!

    Range - a place for shooting (firing or driving) projectiles of various kinds.

    Park- a large area of land preserved in its natural state as public property.

    C-V Civic District. The C-V District is intended to provide for existing public and quasi-public uses and for the development of new schools, libraries, public parks, public flood control facilities, police, fire, electrical transmission facilities, Water District, Nevada Power and other public utility facilities. In addition, the C-V District may provide for any public or quasi-public use operated or controlled by any recognized religious, fraternal, veteran, civic or service organization. The C-V District is consistent with the Public Facilities category of the General Plan.

    Comment by Victoria — February 15, 2008 @ 11:37 pm

  30. Marie,

    I was at the meeting and what you are saying Nick said had nothing to do with driving. One of the ooliticians actually told the mother who was concerned about her children’s safety not to get in a car with her children.

    I asked Nick to forward me the actual email reference Don Turner made and this is what Don stated on January 30th in an email to a homeowner:

    “All shooting on site will be supervised. Shooting ranges have outstanding safety records. Swimming, biking and other common activities produce more fatalities and injuries than recreational shooting on supervised ranges.”

    And what Nick said is that “Don Turner will not tell you is millions more people engage in those other activities”. Hopefully, this clarifies things for you Marie.

    Comment by John — February 16, 2008 @ 12:22 pm

  31. Dolores,

    I beg to differ with you about people being embarressed about the HOA meeting. There was only one person in that room that was embarrassed, and that is Don Tuner’s friend Marie. As Marie is a big supporter of Don and councilman Ross, I do not blame her because most of the community’s outrage was directed at Don and Councilman Ross. Everyone else was outraged about how our public officials let us down.

    Comment by Robert — February 16, 2008 @ 12:31 pm

  32. I was at the meeting on the 13th as well. And yes, homeowners were angry. My husband is a police officer and we have 3 children. We have several guns in our house. We live in Carmel Canyon. My husband has been a police officer for almost 20 years. He was even unaware of the proposed range due to the simple fact that it was called a park. We, too, did our homework and the builder blatantly lied. From what I gather, the only thing that is of a main concern is the noise level and the fact that on windy days, the winds do reach up to 60 miles per hour. After a dischage, the casing of a shell simply weighs ounces. They said they will only be cleaning two days a week. What happens to all the debris on the other five? They said they sent mailers out in 2005. My house wansn’t even built yet. As you can tell, I am obviously not anti-gun. Nor is my husband. My main concern is the non-disclosure and now that the entrance is next to the same high school my son will be attending in 2010. You only have to be 18 to enter. It’s very inexpensive and just because it is supervised it doesn’t mean that being the largest “supervised” range in the world, that young people and some not so young, have some issues and want to hurt others and themselves. Take a look at the shootings around. In our town, because it’s a tourist town, we only get surface media. We don’t hear how many homocides are really committed here. I am not saying that the range will contribute. In fact, my husband will teach me and my children about gun safety and proper handling of weapons there. All I want is a berm like the ones built on the freeway to help keep out the noise. I also am very concerned about the entrance so near the high school. I am also concerned that knowing that the county was building this range would they allow a high school be built so close. The county may not be responsible in the negligence of the builders non-disclosure, but what about them knowing about the high school being built. As I mentioned, you only have to be 18 to get in. Does that mean you are able to bring your young friends in and are considered responsible for them because you are an adult? I feel the age should be 21 just like alcohol. The range should be aiming for the older not fresh out of high school age group. I am sure this facility will bring in both good and not so good people, but this city already does that. There will also be camping there as well. Sure, it will be a great experience for many visitors, but what about people camping and transients? We don’t know what will come of this and what kind of people it will bring, but Vegas is a bad town anyway. I moved here 20 years ago at age 19 for the “good times”. I work in a Casino and serve alcohol for a living. Isn’t that just as bad. At any given signal, there are at least 1 out of 10 drivers legally drunk. So, I guess if you think about it, there is nothing safe anywhere anymore unless you live in the mountains far away from civilization and people. There is only 1 officer for every 1000 citizens. So, having a “safe place” legally shoot is great. And to all those that do or don’t care about the range. I am with you. I just want some tranquility and quiet while I lay out by my pool and play with my kids. No one will be shot or killed. Yes, there will probably be shells and casings, but I already pick up garbage out of my front and back yard during high winds. Is all this hullabaloo really worth the aggravation? The stress? Nope. It’s going in anyway. Just move the entrance and change the age limit to 21.

    Comment by Kathleen — February 16, 2008 @ 2:43 pm

  33. Maybe you missed the part where I said that I understood people have concerns, much like me and my husband. I’m concerned about noise and safety as well. Many other homeowners that I’ve discussed this with also agree that the meeting was nothing more than a lynch mob, and they were embarrassed as well. It was hard for those of us who weren’t interested in a public execution to get more information, but couldn’t because too many people couldn’t keep their emotions in check and were more interested in hurling insults. I thought these were adults?

    As far as being a “big supporter” of Don and councilman Ross, I would prefer to take the stance of working with them to make sure that the shooting range is designed and built in such a way to have minimal impact on the homeowners. If we do nothing but get in their face, make rude, unfounded, and outlandish accusations, then why would they feel they should work with us? They’ll just do it however they see fit. I agree with many of the homeowners that notification was not handled well, and I’m not sure who’s at fault: the county, Lennar, or both. As the old saying goes “you get more flies with honey than vinegar”.

    Comment by Marie — February 16, 2008 @ 3:00 pm

  34. An empty field next to a developing community is a huge RED FLAG for a potential New Home buyer. A SMART
    shopper would have done research downtown to see what was proposed for development on that land! Elected officials are NOT responsible for a home buyer’s ignorance! Builders are NOT responsible for a home buyer’s neglect. NO laws have been broken with regards to notification of potential home buyers in the Carmel Canyon area. If you feel an injustice has occurred, introduce legislation (good luck) to change
    the infraction for which you feel you have endured so it does not happen in the future to someone else or you, if you are unwilling to do your research AGAIN!
    No one hid anything from the Carmel Canyon residents!
    Through the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) you are
    entitled to ANY information regarding development in ANY area of the county. All YOU have to do is ASK for the information! I believe YOU, the immature home owners, are individually at fault for NOT doing YOUR
    research before purchasing your new home. Your behavior at last Wednesday’s meeting (which I attended) was disgraceful. Your HOA president, speaking like the character “Karen” off of an episode of “Will and Grace” complete with an extremely low cut shirt, did NOT come across as professional nor was she even “lady like”. I moved here from the deep south - right next door to Blackwater USA in Moyock, North Carolina. I witnessed Blackwater breaking ground with the same “HYPE” as the Clark County Shooting Range. Homes next to Blackwater on Puddin Ridge Road actually increased in value after the opening of Blackwater USA. There has NOT been ONE STRAY bullet leaving Blackwater into the neighboring community of Moyock. I was amazed to see a grown woman spin around with her fingers in a gun-like position claiming she feared for her childs life at the meeting Wednesday. This “Sarcastic Behavior” (ONLY allowed by the HOA) was what prompted the politician to suggest that the SPINNING mother not get into a car with her child! Just after her
    incredible display, a man claimed his home owners insurance was going to go up. Insurance WILL go up when your property value INCREASES but, HOA is
    claiming the property value will DECREASE due to the
    shooting range - which is it? Up or Down? The economy has brought down ALL of our homes values and created great difficulty for those people trying to sell their houses. Do not look to blame others for your actions (or inactions). Carmel Canyon residents who want to blame some one and point their fingers need to stand in front of a mirror when doing so!
    I believe the Spinning Mother is the same woman (note I did NOT use the word “Lady”) who told my 14 year old daughter she could NOT enter the room Wednesday night. My daughter was doing research at the library
    for her Mountain View Christian School paper and needed to ask me something. I turned my cell phone off before the meeting started per Karen’s character request UNLIKE the other FOUR Carmel Canyon home owners whose cell phones disrespectfully rang during the meeting! My 14 yr old honor roll daughter told Spinning Mother “I need to speak with my Mother and she is in there” while pointing into the meeting.
    Spinning Mother blocked my daughter’s access and told
    her she could NOT enter the room as the meeting had already started and she might DISRUPT it. TRUST me, my daughter quietly speaking with me during the
    meeting would NOT have disrupted the meeting! Thank God it was NOT an emergency! I find it odd that my daughter could NOT enter the room to speak with me but, this woman spinning around was considered acceptable behavior! When the reporters from the Review/Journal entered the room “Karen” charachter stated “Excuse me sirs, I don’t believe you belong here. Could you remove yourselves from the room, please”? Once the reporter could get in a word he stated he had credentials from the Review/Journal. It was quite embarrassing! I stood up to walk out when people were claiming that the range would bring in people who were drunk (also a claim by Spinning Mother) and someone behind me stated “or stoned”.
    The display of pure ignorance by these people was second only to their anger. So, I will close by stating once again:
    Carmel Canyon residents who want to blame some one and point their fingers need to stand in front of a mirror when doing so!

    Comment by Nancy M — February 16, 2008 @ 4:30 pm

  35. Thanks Marie for backing me up. I talked to about five residents, when someone in the meeting, threw papers at Senator Lee and they left in disgust. I also saw video from inside the room and it look like a lynch mob. I was outside, keeped from going to an “open meeting”. Carmel Canyon HOA meeting was one thing to keep us out, when county officials were invitied,is another thing. Tt should fall under the “open meeting” law that the county mandates in their meetings.

    Hunters/shooters will not be shooting rounds in the air. If they do they will be escorted off the property and probably do, like casinos do and be put on a “Black List” and be told “never return”. Firearms can only be pointed in a safe direction, unload when not on the range, and pointed down range when they are. Also must keep finger off trigger even when unloaded. Shooters must treat all fireamrs as if they were loaded.

    Don’t you hear the noise from 215 and the airport, which probably was disclosed in your “Seller’s real Property Disclosure form’? The developer/real estate agent probably felt these noises were worse than the shooting off firearms would ever be. The park has to keep the noise decimal low and must put in berms and bafles to maintain a certain decimal. If you notice there also will be building on the shooting park grounds that will also absorb the noise. I live near Nellis AFB and it was disclosed in my closing of the noise from plane taking off and landing. Also I hear the train sometimes when the air is light and wind blowing east.

    Don’t you also hear the “ATV” and people shooting in the desert at all hours? The shooing park will only be open from daylight to sunset, with Range officers and volunteers watching everyone & making sure they are behaving and being safe. There also will be a “Host” that will check everyone in or out, along with the park manager, Don Turner. NRA helped design this range along with Don Turner which comes to the shooting park with prior knowledge on how a range should be built, for he was the manager of “Ben Avery Range”. It is a very large range in Phoenix, AZ.

    Lead will also not go back behind the area we will be shooting. We are shooting into the mountain, which will have traps to catch the lead. If high winds occur, like we had Wednesday night, all shooting would have to come to a halt, because of “unsafe conditions”. A shooter could even have a bullet he/she just shot come back and hit them. A red flag has to be raised during shooting hours.

    Comment by Dolores — February 16, 2008 @ 5:08 pm

  36. Thanks for the Thanks, Dolores. I wanted to point out one other thing about the “meeting” last Wednesday.

    One poster states that the homeowners’ anger was directed at the county officials. Their anger was also directed at anyone who spoke up in defense of anything or anyone related to the shooting park. One guy pointed out that he was noticed by the county about the shooting range, and people in the back made fairly rude comments towards him. A woman spoke up in the crowd that she was notified, because she signed up to receive regular notices from Councilman Ross that he sends to anyone that requests them (I’m also on that list); a commenter in the back stated “that’s his wife - that’s why she has notice” (she’s not Councilman Ross’ wife). When Councilman Ross stated he had met with the principal at the high school that is near the entrance, a woman yelled “when was that?? Over dinner and drinks??”

    I sincerely hope there will be more meetings, but I also hope that they can be in a more cordial and adult-like manner. I heard a rumor that there’s another Carmel Canyon HOA meeting about the shooting range in a couple of weeks. I haven’t received “notice” of it yet….can I scream and yell insults at the HOA since I haven’t been properly noticed? Or would my HOA to whom I pay monthly fees prefer I cordially voice my displeasure in a way that would work things out? I would think they would prefer to not be treated they way they treat others (and allow others to be treated).

    Comment by Marie — February 16, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  37. I’ve just read all the above, wow! So many ill informed individuals. It’s a given, the HOA and members have a beef with their developer not the Shooting Park.

    “Where are the funds coming from to pay for the park?” someone asked. They’re from the SNPLMA law passed by Harry Reid. This law requires that money paid to the BLM for vacant land in southern Nevada be directed to parks and other public works in the state, not funneled off to Washington.

    Speaking of Harry Reid. Senator Reid has been a huge proponent of the park. He was the main speaker at the groundbreaking and actually fired the first shot down range! (Didn’t you folks in Carmel Canyon hear it??)

    The entry to the range will be on Decatur…after the street is extended by more than a mile. Why is this a “bad thing” for kids at the high school? I rather doubt that they’ll hear anything over the din of air conditioning, etc. that are common in today’s schools. If I had a kid going to that school I’d be very excited that he or she would be so close to a world class training facility.

    I could go on and on, but the point here is that the park WILL be built. Now it’s just a question of how much of a delay will the HOA be responsible for. How much additional funding will be required to pay for this delay. How much longer will the citizens of Clark County have to wait for the park that has been promised to them?

    Otto

    Comment by Otto — February 17, 2008 @ 11:38 am

  38. I am a resident of Carmel Canyon. You are all missing the point. Our elected officials have failed to govern and protect us. They had options. They could have zoned the land our homes were built on parkland or industrial which would have prevented this area from having residential homes. This affects between 500-1000 families. The same City Planning Department who approved our development approved the shooting park. Instead of “rubber stamping” it, they should have approved it with mandatory disclosures for the shooting park. If they had done this, we would not be protesting now. By failing to plan properly, they have not only let us down, they have let the people of Las Vegas down; they have put a $61 million dollar (on $1.5 billion dollars worth of land) project in jeopardy by their gross negligence. Park supporters should join us in holding our public officials accountable. The next time, it could happen to you. Who knows what they will sneak into your backyard!

    I am another homeowner who did my “due diligence” even though I lived in New Jersey at the time. I called the City Planning Office. As a realtor in NJ, I often called local Planning Offices and was always given accurate and complete information. My naiveté was my expectation of the same from the Las Vegas Planning Office. When I called in May of 2004 (prior to signing my contract) and inquired about the “Civic Zoning” I was told that nothing was planned at that time, perhaps it would be a water treatment facility, a school, or library. I even asked, if they could put a jail there. I was told “No.” I then asked if there was anything in the planning that I should be concerned about. Again I was told, “No.” So basically, the only way I could have found out about this shooting range (sorry, park), would have been to rent an ATV, risk getting arrested (BLM rangers patrol and don’t allow you out there), and drive to Moccasin, the paper street a mile out to the desert with no access roads, where the Planning Commission claims they posted the signs about it. However, most of our residents have lived in Las Vegas for years and they did not know about this park either.

    Why do you think the Planning Commission did not disclose the shooting park to me? Do you think they deliberately lied? Do you think they did not know about it? Or do you think they didn’t bother to look it up? What do you think?

    By the way, for all you haters, we live 4 – 5 miles from 215 and about 6-7 miles from the North Vegas airport (we live in Las Vegas, not North Las Vega). It is extremely quiet out here, which is why we purchased out here. We would like to keep it that way. We were told nothing commercial would be built north of 215 in this area. This is a commercial for profit venture that they are trying to sell to us by calling it a park. Most of us have invested between 500-700K in our homes. This happens to be my retirement home. My life savings are in this home. How would you feel if it were you? We know that we will have to pursue legal action against our builder, however this is larger than our builder, and it is a failure to plan and to govern.

    Comment by Caroline — February 17, 2008 @ 7:47 pm

  39. Caroline, Blog #45,

    You are right on point. No one else could have said it better… as if you took the words right out of my mouth …EXCELLENT!!!

    Comment by Randy — February 18, 2008 @ 8:43 am

  40. You people are getting out of control. I know Don Turner and he never wrote the blog #46. He is in Phoenix taking care of personal matters and never even seen this blog. The Carmel Canyon homeowners are doing nothing but a smear campaign. Shame on the people that is doing this. KLAS-TV take note!!!!!

    By the way the “Shooting Range” as you want to call it, was named a “Park” for it fell under the Clark County Parks and Recreation jurisdiction.

    Maire you are welcome.

    Comment by Dolores — February 18, 2008 @ 6:07 pm

  41. Unfortunately, this blog has become somewhat a reflection of what occurred last week at the meeting. When faced with facts, statistics, and proof, many people have no response other than direct and personal attacks (like throwing papers at someone, personal insults, etc.). The fact that someone has to come on here and “pretend” to be Don Turner shows how desperate people are to try to prove their point (much like the panel did at the meeting) when they have no proof to back it.

    I’ll ask again: show me some statistics proving how dangerous this park will be. Show me those statistics, and I’ll fight against the shooting park tooth and nail. I’ve done my research, with no input from anyone in the county. I make my decisions based on my own independent research and experience.

    Comment by Marie — February 18, 2008 @ 7:25 pm

  42. This is for those of you who enjoy slinging mud and calling names, yet stating how “embarrassed” you were at how ‘everyone’ treated the invited guests. Have you looked in the mirror lately, because IMO you are the ignorant ones. Calling people immature and characters. Grow up people. WE did not make fun of you or attack you in any way, yet you obviously need to make yourselves feel better by attacking others and calling names. Are we little children or adults? We CAN come together and discuss this like adults but the problem is when people start mud slinging and acting like 2-year-olds calling names for absolutely no reason at all. That is insulting - and it just goes to show YOUR ignorance.

    I, too, am a CC resident and I purchased even earlier than others who have already posted ahead of me, and YES I DID MY DUE DILIGENCE and was LIED TO by the same people who OUT AND OUT LIED to everyone else. (That is why I am so irate)!!

    If you people would act your age and READ what we are saying, we are NOT against legally-owned guns, we are NOT against a shooting range being put in a safe, NONRESIDENTIAL area, we are NOT against YOU!! You people seem to be taking this personally and perhaps you need to step back and THINK about what we are saying.

    We did our due diligence and were OUT AND OUT LIED TO by NOT ONLY THE BUILDER, but by PUBLIC OFFICIALS!! That is where our anger stems from. We were not told the truth so purchased homes where WE NEVER WOULD HAVE had we known the TRUTH. There are a handful of people who have either no feelings either way or are FOR the Shooting Range (let’s call it what it really is - not a play on words like the County has done - see the real definition of each word and be honest to yourself as to what fits the definition). I say that is your prerogative. You are entitled to your opinion but why do you bash those of you who do not agree with your opinion?

    As adults all trying to live together and get along in a supposedly upscale community, what kind of message are we sending here? That it is okay to make fun of and belittle each other because you are angry or because someone does not have the same opinion as you?

    Maybe if those supporters were in a similar situation where they were lied to and deceptive practices were used for monetary gain, but it did not involve something that you wanted or agreed with, then maybe you could understand how we feel. You cannot put yourselves in our position because you do not agree with us, but someday you may be on the other side of the fence and maybe then you will realize.

    Has anyone really thought about the consequences of having such a LARGE shooting range so close to upscale homes? What is to stop someone or a group of people (and don’t even say that they are going to keep gang members out because they cannot discriminate and there is absolutely no way for anyone to prove that someone is or is not a gang member) from leaving the range and deciding to commit crimes in our ever-so-close neighborhoods? For those of you who support this, how would you feel if your home was vandalized or burglarized and you found out later that it was because of the increased traffic to the area because of the shooting range? Oh, yeah, you think this is something that cannot happen, right? Think again. With the increased traffic this area will have, there will be increased crime.

    Also, if this is so safe, then why doesn’t the County come to us and work with us in having a third party - who is not involved - do current impact studies to see what the third party says about the possible health hazards? Oh, yeah, they have the EPA studies, which state it is safe, but guess who they are in bed with - yup the NRA. (Sorry folks, just the facts). That would certainly help to allay my fears. Also, they will have police on duty from the opening to the time it closes. Well, what about the people who are staying there in their RVs or on the camp grounds who are enjoying their little weekend getaway and have had too much to drink/are intoxicated. What is to stop them from getting their guns out and using them? Someone mentioned earlier about mentally unstable people - well, with alcohol in the mix there is the potential for anything to happen. How about having police there 24/7?

    All of you seem to think that we are opposed to this because of the noise factor, and while for some that may be the main issue, but for me it is not. The main issue for me is the safety of all of us and our families.

    I hope you can understand that - as some of you have stated that you have children. You want to keep them safe and try to protect them, don’t you? Well that is all that we are trying to do - keep our families safe and out of harm’s way.

    Go ahead and bash me now, because I am sure there will be someone out there who feels that they need to - or maybe not? I hope that I have made some of you understand what we are going thru with all of this.

    We just do not like being lied to. Do you?

    Comment by Maz — February 18, 2008 @ 7:37 pm

  43. One other comment. I do not condone the actions of some people at the meeting, but I do understand the anger and some people cannot keep their tempers under control - at times myself included. I will admit it.

    We are all human beings with feelings and emotions. I am sure you can understand that.

    Comment by Maz — February 18, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

  44. Hey Marie,

    Why don’t you give us some documented facts? Can you, or anyone else for that matter, honestly swear to us that you cannot hear rifles over two-three miles away (some of us are less than a mile? What is the actual distance that noise from hundreds of rounds per minute travels and what are the true noise decibels? Public officials swear they will shut down this $61 million park if noise exceeds 56 decibels. Do you really believe that? Do you realize that once this park is opened there has been Federal Legislation that was passed that prevents you from suing for noise. A shooting range is the exception to the rule for noise nuisance regulations. By the way, it was obvious that Blogger No. 46 was just joking and being sarcastic while advising you that your friend, Mr. Turner is the only Nevadan on the NRA board.

    Caroline

    Comment by Caroline — February 18, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  45. Maz, do your homework. Check out Ben Avery Shooting Range in Phoenix and Desert Sportsman’s Rifle & Pistol Club right here in Las Vegas. DSRPC has homes right across the street from them. People moved into the area knowing there was a shooting range right across the street. Check out other ranges in the country, you will find gangs do not go there. There was an independent study done on the range, and findings turned into Clark County Commissioners.

    Don Turner was there at the meeting to address your concerns, but a few people turned it into a shouting match and lynch mob. Just look at the video with this blog. What about the women twirling around like she is shooting a gun in the air. Check out what range rules are going to be in effect. No one will be allowed to shoot in the air or in a wrong direction. Traps will be put in for lead control under EPA standards. That can be done through the NRA.

    I am sorry you people got duped by our developer. Work with your City, County and State Officials to make sure this will never happen again. I have three friends in real estate and they claim that the developer has to disclose noise and smell hazards located in the area they are selling. Check with an attorney and file a class action lawsuit against the developer. You can not expect County, City and State Officials to monitor every thing that goes on in this town, but they can work with you to see that this never happens again. If you no longer want to live in Carmel Canyon I feel that the developer should have to pay all cost to help you move somewhere else. What sone is done. This shooting park will be built. These people wanting this range did nothing wrong.

    Comment by Dolores — February 18, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  46. Dolores,
    “DSRPC has homes right across the street from them. People moved into the area knowing there was a shooting range right across the street.”

    This says it in a nutshell - they knew what they were getting themselves into - nobody lied to them.

    As far as my other concerns, they are valid. You cannot compare this shooting range to one that is not near the size that it will be. There are no comparisons. You are talking about something that is being done on a HUGE scale. They cannot police everything happening everywhere all of the time.

    And I still stand by my concerns and original comments.

    The twirling lady or ladies who you are referring to, I have no idea what you are talking about, and I was at that very same meeting. Back or front of the room?

    Also your comment “These people wanting this range did nothing wrong.”

    Nobody every said that the people who want it or are in favor of it did anything wrong. We are not blaming the people who are “pro” this for anything. Perhaps that is the problem. Some people are misunderstanding our whole point of opposing this in our neighborhood, and it has nothing at all to do with the people who own legal guns or are for this or even NRA members.

    We simply do not want it in our backyard. Take it to the area where the community in THAT area wants it - if there is room. Otherwise, find another parcel of land that is not so close to so many communities.

    The problem is that this project has been “in the planning stages” for so long that when it was originally thought of, nobody lived within many, many miles of this area. It was barren desert wasteland. But with the growth of the Valley and people moving further and further away from the Strip/City into new communities being built on the outskirts of town, the City officials, as well as County officials should have put legislation into effect forcing ALL builders (as it is not only Lennar/Greystone, but others, as well) to DISCLOSE what was going on and also the people in the planning offices should have been honest with people asking questions, also.

    Nobody likes being lied to no matter how you look at it, it stinks!

    Comment by Maz — February 18, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  47. In regard to the Shooting Park:

    When did the blog become a forum for character assassination?

    Marie, it was never my intent to embarrass you or any other homeowner.

    Let’s please focus on the serious matter at hand; and amalgamate as one community.

    Comment by "karen" aka G.F. — February 18, 2008 @ 10:26 pm

  48. Maz, This shooting park has been in the planning state for many years and spent a lot of money to make sure your concerns were answered. Apparently you don’t want to get answer to your concerns. Maybe you want everyone to do the work for you. You had your chance to get answers and you all turned it in to a circus. I only mention DSRPC and Ben Avery because houses are near by and you can get answers you are seeking on whether not how much noise they can hear for being closer than you are at a mile away. Didn’t you hear Don Turner say, “We must stay uner .56 decimals to keep running, for where your house are? The only part that will be open 5 days a week is the public ranges. The public part of this range is on a smaller scope than Desert Sportsman. The range on the map in green and blue are for mainly weekend use and will be contracted out to clubs, individuals, shooting displines that are willing to pay a rental fee to use these ranges. Some displines might have a four day shoot, which might be Thursday, Friday, Saturday & Sunday, once a year. This should have been address at the meeting, if you were listening. The part in yellow is the first phase and besides the roads, utilities being put in, there will be a building for the Depatment of Wildlife for maining teaching hunter safety classes, the public ranges, achery range and the building for the host for checking in, etc. Where were you when the first shot was fired. Don’t you hear ATV’s and shooting all the time now. Even late at night. At least there will be certain hours to shoot. This will stop ATV’s and will control shooting. All ranges that will have shooters on it, will require a range officer.

    I agree I wouldn’t have liked to be lied to either, sue Lenner Homes and make them pay to move you somewhere else. Why should the range be stopped? This range is a done deal. I am sure the shooting park will make sure the residents are happy, except for those that wants it to stop construction.

    Comment by Dolores — February 18, 2008 @ 10:35 pm

  49. No we don’t expect “everyone” to work for us, just the City of Las Vegas Planning Department and our Councilman and Senators who are on the Shooting Advisory Board. Again, you are missing the point, it is not just Lennar who did not disclose, but Pulte in Silverstone Ranch and KB in Iron Mountain. Even the builder of Maverick is currently not disclosing it even now. We spoke to him. He claimed he did not know about it. It is a real coincidence that the three largest builders in Las Vegas did not disclose this range. Something is very sinister here. The 2900 acres is worth $1.5 billion dollars, and $61 million dollars of tax payers money has gone into this project and no one covered their “butts.” Incompetent! They failed to govern!

    Caroline

    Comment by Caroline — February 19, 2008 @ 1:38 am

  50. Response to #42: I don’t remember calling anyone names, and I apologize if anyone thought I did so. As far as a gun range attracting gang members, what?? The last thing those types of people want to do is go to a monitored gun range where law enforcement will be training and is monitored by law enforcement. That’s kind of out there.

    Response to #44: I provided documented statistics on the safety of guns versus driving earlier in this blog, as I was attempting to counter some points made during the meeting. As far as the sound is concerned, if the gun range is found to be above the mandated decibel range, they have to cease operations until the problem is fixed, whether that be installing berms, etc. They won’t close down permanently; only until the problem is resolved. I fully expect to hear gun shots once the range is open, much like I expect to hear the ATV’s running day and night, the drag racing going on up and down Jones and Iron Mountain day and night, the occasional noises from the “mini-airport” off of Decatur, etc. I guess I don’t freak out about because I live in Las Vegas. If I wanted quiet, I’d move to Logandale, or somewhere like that.

    Lastly, I’d like to point out that I agree where some of the homeowners’ anger is coming from, as I’ve stated before; I don’t agree with how people expressed their anger. It was laughable during the meeting when the county PIO stated that they posted notices on a non-existent road that no one can get to by vehicle, and signs are posted that motorized vehicles aren’t allowed. However, notice was sent before most of the people in Carmel Canyon bought their homes. Therefore, the issue is with the builder, not the county.

    Bottom line, the range will be built. So how are we, as homeowners, going to work together with the county to minimize the impact? Right now there’s this huge divide, which is sad for all of us, and is doing more to disrupt our “peace and quiet” than any gun range will. I keep hoping that people will put aside their anger and work with the county in everyone’s best interest.

    Comment by Marie — February 19, 2008 @ 10:47 am

  51. Marie,

    Do you really live in Carmel Canyon? I never hear ATVs and have never heard or seen anyone drag racing up and down Jones or Iron Mountain. An occasional airplane from Nellis or North Vegas Airport is not comparable to gunshots all day long every day. Also, there is very little that can be done to attenuate noise. Studies have shown that 100 feet of dense trees only reduce noise by 5 decibels.

    By the way, the HOA is still waiting for a copy of the “notice” that was sent to Lennar. They still have not received it.

    Caroline

    Comment by Caroline — February 19, 2008 @ 2:23 pm

  52. I’ve lived in Carmel Canyon for almost a year now. I hear the the ATV’s and drag racers fairly often, including late at night. There were a few times last fall where we were woken up in the middle of the night by some kids racing their dirt bikes up and down Iron Mountain and along Jones. It happens…no big deal. I also see and hear the jets from Nellis almost every day, and the other planes I was talking about were the ones at the remote controlled airplane area over off of Decatur (I don’t hear that one very often, but sometimes on a clear day and the windows are open upstairs).

    I believe Don Turner was trying to say that they were looking at building a wall, much like is used on the freeways. Unfortunately, they weren’t given the chance to talk a lot about the plans during the meeting. Again, I think if we work with Councilman Ross and Don Turner, and if some sort of wall isn’t in the works, then maybe we can work with them to get something up like that without having to go through the whole “exceeding decibel, temporary shutdown” thing. Would people be more amenable to things if there was a wall built? The wall would address safety as well as noise. Just a thought…

    Comment by Marie — February 19, 2008 @ 6:21 pm

  53. Don Turner stated that the sound abatement that they would be using are some trees. We had requested a sound abatement wall; we were informed additional sound abatement was not in their budget & they did not have any additional funds to spare.

    Comment by "karen" aka G.F. — February 20, 2008 @ 10:35 am

  54. Actually, laws have been broken, for Nevada is not a “Buyer Beware” state, even though so many of you keep using that cliche. Nevada requires full disclosure of all material facts from the seller — in this case, the Builder.

    If the Shooting Range is built, the builders that failed to disclose will surely be sued repeatedly. FYI, failure to disclose = triple damages and resonable attorney’s fees.

    Comment by Rob — February 23, 2008 @ 2:26 am

  55. Good Sunday Morning Rob,
    You stated: “IF the Shooting Range is built”.
    The shooting range WILL be built. The range is
    NOT at fault so, they have nothing to lose by
    proceeding with their plans.

    Have you listened to the first song on the Eagles
    CD of “#@!! Freezes Over”? It is titled:
    “Get Over It”
    Some of the lyrics:
    “I turn on the tube and what do I see,
    A whole lot of people crying don’t blame me.
    They point their crooked little fingers at
    everybody else.”
    “Spend all their time feeling sorry for themselves.
    Victim of this. Victim of that. Some call it sick
    but I call it weak.”
    Chorus
    “Get Over It, Get over it. All this whining,
    crying, pitching a fit, Get over it”
    “You say you haven’t been the same since you had
    your little crack but, you might feel better if
    they give you some cash.”
    “You don’t want to work. You want to live like a
    king but, the big bad world doesn’t owe you a thing”.
    Chorus again.
    “You drag it around like a ball and chain.
    Wallow in your guilt, wallow in your pain.
    You wear it like a badge. You wear it like a crown.
    Got your mind in the gutter bringing everybody down.”
    Chorus
    “Get over it, Get over it, It’s got to stop sometime.
    Why don’t you quit? Get over it, Get over it.”

    I do not do the song justice by writing the lyrics
    as the guitar is AWESOME. You should listen to it
    sometime as that one song captures how many of us
    feel regarding the meeting after the public display
    (spectacle) towards the invited guests.
    You say “Triple damages and REASONABLE attorney fees”.
    The REAL reason behind this fiasco is quite clear!!
    The ALMIGHTY buck which is quite common here in
    SIN CITY.

    Comment by Nancy M — February 24, 2008 @ 10:46 am

  56. I have read all of the above entries, and am appalled at some of the entries, and responses.

    I do feel sorry for the homeowners who do not want to be “within Shouting Range” of the Clark County Shooting Park. I did observe a selected few of the homeowners who were trying to “Shout” loud enough to be heard over 1.3 Miles away, but unfortunately not not being allowed inside the room to a previously stated public meeting I missed out.
    e was
    These Homeowners neglected to ascertain whether there was going to be anything objectionable to their way of life in their new residence befalls solely upon their shoulders, and signed off on documents to that effect.

    If they would have taken the time to view County Records there were over 18 occasions that the Clark county Commissioner’s heard the Pro’s & Con’s of the Clark County Shooting Park.

    Furthermore there have been 84 Monthly Meetings of the Clark County Shooting Park Advisory Board (They report directly to the County Commissioner’s ).

    The Property was Deeded to ” The people of Clark County Nevada to be used solely as a Shooting Facility in Perpetuity ” by President G.W Bush on Jan 23,2003. That’s Public Law People !

    I ask all of you Homeowners to research just exactly why your Real Estate Agents, and / or Homeowners Association weren’t aware of this matter.

    The public has always been able to participate in the CCSPAB Meetings they are posted 2 weeks in advance as per Clark County’s Open meeting Law.

    A listing of all of the Meetings are available at the CCSP Website listed below:

    http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/parks/Shooting_Park.htm

    Comment by Art — February 24, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  57. Where on the Clark County Shooting Park site are the current meetings posted???

    Comment by Randy — February 25, 2008 @ 3:13 am

  58. In response to Jack Fisher,post #20

    Jack,
    Just who are these mysterious promoters you refer to?
    I for one would like to have you share where the Money has gone,and who’s going to get all this money.

    SNPLMA is grant money , and criteria must be met to enable spending of them.

    CCSP is a Public Shooting Facility DSRPC, BRPC, and Nellis are not. You are comparing Apples to Oranges.

    The City of Las Vegas has taken back from the State of Nevada Floyd Lamb Park, and Las Vegas Gun Club is in discussing options with the City of Las Vegas as to what they are going to do. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the CCSP Project.

    #20

    The shooting park is a white elephant, overplanned and overbuilt and far too big for the existing shooting public. Future plans for acquiring certain national competitions (e.g., the Grand American) are outrageously extravagant and unrealistic.

    The promoters sold the County a bill of goods. The park will not create new shooters, and the existing shooting public is well served by existing ranges.

    Desertsportsman Rifle and Pistol Club, the clubs in Boulder City, the Nellis AFB range are not being overrun with rifle and pistol shooters or shotgunners, the Las Vegas Gun Club does fine with a fraction of the number of trap and skeet bunkers that have been proposed for the new facility.

    This new facility will just make recreational shooting ever more expensive. I’d look long and hard at what the promoter$ are getting out of this.

    Comment by Jack Fisher — February 14, 2008 @ 4:53 pm

    Comment by Art — February 25, 2008 @ 10:30 am

  59. Randy,

    The CCSPAB Meetings are usually held in the County Building ( Normally in the Pueblo Room ) , and are posted on the Clark County Website 2 weeks in advance to comply with the Open Meeting Law Don Turner has the schedule for 2008.

    You can sign up for the EBulletin to get all notices from Don Turner,and the Public is welcome to participate.

    For more information please contact Don Turner 702-455-8199 , or visit the website below:

    http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/parks/Shooting_Park.htm

    Comment by Art — February 26, 2008 @ 5:06 am

  60. In Response to Bolg #23 Henry You want Stats try these.
    I’m not an anti Car Guy, but here are the Numbers
    ====================================================

    MOTOR VEHICLE MILEAGE DEATH RATES BY COUNTRY, 1996
    COUNTRY

    DEATHS PER 100 MILLION VEHICLE-MILES
    (1) Sweden 1.2
    (2) United Kingdom 1.4
    (3) Finland 1.5
    (4) United States 1.7
    (5) Netherlands 1.8
    (6) Denmark 2.0
    (7) Italy 2.2
    (8) Japan 2.3
    (9) Germany 2.5
    (10) France 2.8
    (11) Hong Kong 4.0
    (12) Portugal 4.0
    (13) Poland 8.6
    (14) Turkey 21.3
    (15) South Korea 35.8

    Comment by Art — February 27, 2008 @ 8:42 pm

  61. In regards to the Feb 22, 2008 letter to the editor “Gun Range Has No Business Near School”I would like to provide the following comments.I am also a homeowner in the area of this new “gun range” I specifically bought my home in the area to be near the new Clark County Shooting Park. From what I understand, this shooting park will have programs designed to teach youth the responsible use of firearms, certainly a nescessary skill they aren’t learning in the current education system.

    This public range has been in theplanning stages by citizens and government officials for the last twenty years. The Las Vegas Sun archives contain many stories regarding the planning for the transfer of the land for this express purpose over the last eight years.

    This public shooting range was planned for and the land obtained BEFORE the school district built Shadow Ridge High School and BEFORE some of the new neighbors moved into into the area. So the question should be “why did the school district decide to build a school near the shooting park?” Also, a student at this very same high school (in 2005) was shot by a bullet fired from the wash near by a person targetpracticing. This public shooting park will stop that, and allow the public to have a saft place to shoot. a donumented critical need in the valley.

    If the homeowners have a beef about the shooting range, it should be directed towards the developer, not towards the government officials who have been trying to develop a controlled and safe public shooting park. If the notification was so flawed, why did many of the homeowners already know about the shooting park?.

    According to national figures 45% of the households in Clark County own a firearm. This means that every school has firearms in the local neighborhood,and that firearms are being legally transported around schools through out the valley. I know of no incident where a person going to a shooting range to compete or practice has ever stopped by to shoot up a school. NOWHERE, not in Clark County and not in the nation.

    Also according to national figures shooting ranges are very safe. There are four otheroutdoor shooting ranges in Las Vegas, (two are police ranges,and two are private ranges) and a search of the Sun archives yields NO stories regarding a shooting range being a danger to the surronding community, NONE

    All these comments about schools,noise,safety,property values,notifications, etc are all “red herring issues” generated by people personally opposed to a public shooting range in “their” area.

    The facts are that this public shooting range will be safe and non intrusive to the community. It will not harm them in any way. From what I have read, heard and understand everything was done properly.

    If these people have a valid beef it is with the developers who failed to disclose all the development in their area. If they are so worried about noise, when they sue their developer, they should demand that the developer pay for the sound walls on the shooting park. As the shooting areas are located over a mile from the nearest possible rsidence,that would provide the best sound protection at a non tax payers expense.

    According to theeditorial in last sunday’s Review Journal and Ritalin then there are by a public shooting range (100% vs 0%.

    TC

    Comment by tc parker — February 27, 2008 @ 8:58 pm

  62. WTG TC,
    Thanks for the Good Vibes from a local homeowner.

    Comment by Art — February 28, 2008 @ 9:21 am

  63. TC,

    “The facts are that this public shooting range will be safe and non intrusive to the community. It will not harm them in any way.”

    That is a statement of OPINION and NOT fact, as it is not up to YOU to tell ME what is or is not going to be intrusive to my lifestyle. I just had to clarify that. Thank you.

    Comment by Maz — March 2, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  64. one other comment,

    “This public shooting range was planned for…”

    Just because something is “planned” does not necessarily mean that it WILL happen.

    Some people plan to have children, but those plans do not happen.

    Some people plan to save money, but that does not happen.

    I was planning on taking a vacation this Spring, but who knows if it will actually happen or not.

    So, technically, the park may have been “planned” but THE PARK is encroaching on us and NOT the other way around because we are already here, in existence, with a community that is already established - NOT JUST PLANNED.

    Comment by Maz — March 2, 2008 @ 9:18 pm

  65. You are correct Maz,
    Much like the Planned Communities near a Shooting Facility which The President of the United States signed into Public Law on Jan 23,2003.
    Public Law 107-350 Look it Up !
    That’s a Fact !

    Comment by Art — March 3, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  66. Maz, That is your definition of planning. What planning really means is public demands, public hearings, public meetings, designs, construction. What is really encroaching is your fear of something that is not going to impact you in any way. The horse park west (down wind) from you is going to be a bigger impact. The wash north of you will always have blowing silt, those are impacts. A public shooting park, a mile away won’t encroach on you, you are being unreasonable and closed minded.

    Best thing for you to do is contact your developer and have them pay for you to move out of the area. They are the one that screwed up and didn’t disclose it’s location to you. Nothing will please you except for the “Shooting Park” to stop construction. That won’t happen.

    Oscar Goodman wanted this property for more development, which would have meant more traffic on Decatur. Even Oscar couldn’t get the property, for it was a Bill in Congress that made this area only to be a “Shooting Range”.

    Comment by Dolores — March 4, 2008 @ 2:23 pm

  67. In rereading my above comment I should have stated Oscar Goodman is for the shooting park, so don’t you residnets of Carmel Canyon think any difference.

    Comment by Dolores — March 4, 2008 @ 10:52 pm

  68. Dolores,

    How dare you tell me what will and will not impact my me?!!!

    You have your opinion and I have mine. You think I am closed-minded because I do not have the same opinion as you. To you I am being unreasonable because again, I do not have the same opinion as you, but that just goes to show who truly is closed-minded. I understand that we all have differences of opinions and things bother some people but do not bother others. You’re saying that the shooting park, “will not encroach on me” quite honestly is a statement made of opinion - your opinion. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT tell me how I feel or what will or will not bother me. My home is less than 1 mile from this SP. (Yes, the whole one mile buffer crapola that DT is feeding to the public, we all know the TRUTH - about many things - and the Community is NOT one mile away, but quite less for some than others). You do not have the right to tell me that something will or will not encroach on me in my own home. Encroach, by definition means “to trespass upon the property, domain, or rights of another.” That is certainly what the SP is doing, because as I have already said, we are an established Community and the SP is still “just a plan.” Dolores, I would never insult you and tell you that your opinions, because different than mine, do not hold merit. To you, they do, so that is fine. But maybe you need to open up your mind and possibly try to see things from somebody else’s point of view. I can understand that a shooting park is necessary for Las Vegas and the gunowners who want to practice or have fun shooting. Yes, a shooting park well away from a residential neighborhood and a high school is a wonderful idea. There were other pieces of land that they were considering - let them go build there.

    You are correct on one thing - the only thing that will please me will be for the SP to not be built in my backyard. I would be thrilled to hear that they moved to another location, far away from the nearest residential community. Everyone deserves to enjoy life not just me. That way everyone is happy - not just me because I can consider other’s feelings and their point of view, even if different from mine. If everyone who did not want the gun range moved out of the Community you would be pretty lonely.

    As far as me being afraid or having fear. I am not afraid. I only want to live in my Community and enjoy what I moved here for. The tranquility of the area.

    You mention the horse (equestrian) park, but in attending a meeting a couple of years ago regarding that, they do not even have the funding to do anything and probably will never have the funds necessary to build something on such a large scale. So, that is just a pipe dream, it seems. As far as silt being blown around, I get enough dirt blowing around from my neighbor’s who have not yet landscaped, so that is not something that will impact me. Maybe it is something that will impact you and if it does I am sorry about that. But then again, I am closed-minded so maybe I should say, oh well, move away.

    Comment by Maz — March 5, 2008 @ 7:11 pm

  69. I HOPE YOU ENJOY WHAT SHADOW RIDGE HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, AND ALL NEARBY COMMUNITIES, WILL HAVE TO LISTEN TO ALL-DAY-LONG-EVERYDAY!!!

    Gun noise in our neighborhoods

    Persistent sounds of gunfire dominate this backyard play area at a home 1.3 miles north of the Island Lake shooting range. ALTHOUGH HEAVILY WOODED, the gun noise permeates our neighborhoods, disturbing even normal conversation outside. The sound of gunshots can be heard inside our homes as well. For 7 to 8 hours a day normally, and longer during special events, we are bombarded with this gunshot noise. Both DNR and Township sound studies had excessive readings in the neighborhood. You can listen to 60 seconds of a recording taken mid-afternoon on June 11, 2005.

    PLEASE NOTE ALSO THAT THE ISLAND LAKE SHOOTING RANGE IS NOT “THE WORLD’S LARGEST SHOOTING PARK”

    Please set your computer speaker volume to Don Turner’s “56 DECIBELS” and see if you can stand this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    COPY AND PASTE LINK TO LISTEN
    http://www.cfqc.org/ilsr1_016.htm

    Comment by Randy — March 10, 2008 @ 2:38 am

  70. Here’s part of a FAQ I’ve received from the county about the noise level, and some additional information about the link provided in post #69:

    WHAT WILL THE NOISE LEVEL BE?
    • Clark County Code 30.68.020 specifies the sound levels for residential neighborhoods at 72 decibels (dBA). It is measured with a certified sound meter four feet above the ground at the nearest property line. Impulse noise (similar to the type generated by a shooting range), however, cannot exceed 56 decibels (dBA) during daytime hours. That means that there is a greater standard for shooting ranges than for neighborhoods.
    • By moving the trap and skeet ranges north by a half mile, the calculated noise level over a “free field” will not exceed 56 dBA. If the actual conditions exceed 56dBA, the offending ranges must be closed until proper sound attenuation is realized.
    • A “free field” is the optimum condition for noise travel. Any type of obstruction or friction created by bushes, washes, berms, sound walls, vegetation, etc. will lower the dBA.
    • By the nature of its use, a trap and skeet field can only have one shooter shooting at a time. That means that despite the size of the event, only 24 people can shoot on the trap and skeet fields.
    • All shooting on the Public Module will be directed north, which means that the loudness of the sound will be directed away from the residence.
    • On February 11, 2008 we conducted an informal sound test at the site and from the shotgun ranges closest to the end of Jones Boulevard, the sound meter did not detect the shotgun shots.
    • The gunshots recorded on the web page from the Island Lake Recreation Area, presented to local residents are between 79 and 84 decibles. The volume must be turned down less than 30% to replicate the 56-decibel requirement.
    • A basketball on tile floor is 82-84 decibles, and on carpet between 78-80. Both of these exceed the 56-decibel requirement for the shooting park. We were unable to dribble a basketball at 56 decibels.

    HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THE SHOOTING PARK WILL FOLLOW THE COUNTY CODE FOR NOISE?
    • Once the trap/skeet ranges become operational, the County will test the noise per county code for compliance. If the code is not achieved, shooting will cease on the offending fields until the county meets the code.
    • Remember, the total volume of sound will not double with each shotgun and the park cannot exceed the level required by the county code.
    • Bottom Line: The shooting park MUST be in compliance with all county codes.

    Comment by Marie — March 10, 2008 @ 9:54 am

  71. Hopefully I can post this; here’s the full FAQ:

    QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

    WHAT ARE THE FEATURES OF THE SHOOTING PARK?
    • Information regarding features of the shooting park is contained in our Information Sheet, which is also available on our web page. The first phase to be constructed and operational in 2009 is the “public module.” Generally the public module consists of an education center, a public rifle and pistol range, trap and skeet ranges, an archery range and administrative features.

    WHAT ARE THE HOURS OF OPERATION?
    • The Shooting Park will be open during daytime hours. County Code Title 30.08.030 defines daytime hours as between 6 am to 10 pm.
    • The proposed hours of public operation (rifle/pistol, trap/skeet, archery) are planned for 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., Wednesday through Sunday, and closed Monday and Tuesday for cleaning. Different hours may be posted for parts of the public rifle and pistol range, trap & skeet ranges, the education center and archery range in order to allow for greater flexibility in scheduling.
    • Once or twice a week, we will have league nights or special training events where shooting may occur until 10 pm.
    • In order to accommodate corporate events and special needs, there may be some shooting on Monday and Tuesday, but not open to general public shooting.

    WHY HAVE A SHOOTING PARK?
    • Approximately 45% of the households own a firearm in Clark County, yet despite this large population of gun owners, there are no public ranges. Consequently, this creates an environment where many people target practice in undesignated and unsafe areas.
    • Areas such as the Las Vegas Wash are often used as an undesignated target areas, causing some areas to be littered with bullets and shooting debris.
    • The shooting park offers a place for residents to safely practice shooting in a controlled environment that is monitored environmentally.

    WHAT WILL BE THE CLOSEST SHOOTING AREA TO MY HOUSE?
    • The property line north of La Concha Drive is the closest area to the shooting park. We have moved the shotgun range a half-mile north of our southern boundary. There is a mile separation from the nearest trap and skeet field to the property boundary north of La Concha Drive.

    HOW FAR WILL THE RANGE BE FROM MY HOUSE?
    • The location of your house from La Concha Drive, plus one mile is the distance from your house to the trap and skeet ranges.

    WHAT WILL THE NOISE LEVEL BE?
    • Clark County Code 30.68.020 specifies the sound levels for residential neighborhoods at 72 decibels (dBA). It is measured with a certified sound meter four feet above the ground at the nearest property line. Impulse noise (similar to the type generated by a shooting range), however, cannot exceed 56 decibels (dBA) during daytime hours. That means that there is a greater standard for shooting ranges than for neighborhoods.
    • By moving the trap and skeet ranges north by a half mile, the calculated noise level over a “free field” will not exceed 56 dBA. If the actual conditions exceed 56dBA, the offending ranges must be closed until proper sound attenuation is realized.
    • A “free field” is the optimum condition for noise travel. Any type of obstruction or friction created by bushes, washes, berms, sound walls, vegetation, etc. will lower the dBA.
    • By the nature of its use, a trap and skeet field can only have one shooter shooting at a time. That means that despite the size of the event, only 24 people can shoot on the trap and skeet fields.
    • All shooting on the Public Module will be directed north, which means that the loudness of the sound will be directed away from the residence.
    • On February 11, 2008 we conducted an informal sound test at the site and from the shotgun ranges closest to the end of Jones Boulevard, the sound meter did not detect the shotgun shots.
    • The gunshots recorded on the web page from the Island Lake Recreation Area, presented to local residents are between 79 and 84 decibles. The volume must be turned down less than 30% to replicate the 56-decibel requirement.
    • A basketball on tile floor is 82-84 decibles, and on carpet between 78-80. Both of these exceed the 56-decibel requirement for the shooting park. We were unable to dribble a basketball at 56 decibels.

    HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THE SHOOTING PARK WILL FOLLOW THE COUNTY CODE FOR NOISE?
    • Once the trap/skeet ranges become operational, the County will test the noise per county code for compliance. If the code is not achieved, shooting will cease on the offending fields until the county meets the code.
    • Remember, the total volume of sound will not double with each shotgun and the park cannot exceed the level required by the county code.
    • Bottom Line: The shooting park MUST be in compliance with all county codes.

    I’M NOT FAMILIAR WITH dBAs. WHAT ARE SOME COMPARABLE SOUNDS?
    • Decibles or dBAs are a measurement of sound that is heard by the human ear, the higher the dBA, the louder the sound.
    • Some common sounds are:

    Whisper at 3 feet = 42 dBA
    Normal Speech at 3 feet = 63 to 65 dBA
    Sounds of a City Street = 70 dBA
    Dog Barking at 10 feet = 80-90 dBA
    Freeway Traffic = 90 dBA
    Shotgun Muzzle at 2 feet = 125 dBA
    Jet Plane at 100 feet = 130 dBA

    WON’T THE LEAD FROM THE SHOT AND BULLETS CONTAMINATE THE ENVIRONMENT?
    • Shotgun pellets do not fragment after hitting a clay bird. They fall onto the ground and remain intact.
    • Rifle and pistol bullets become deformed or fragmented after striking a hard object. The rifle and pistol backstops are designed to ensure that no solid objects will be impacted.
    • Rifle and pistol backstops and the shot fall field will be periodically cleaned for lead per legal requirements.
    • Lead bullets tend to stay as macro fragments and tend to remain where they fall. Studies at established ranges show no lead dust contamination in immediately adjacent areas.
    • Case studies of lead contaminated areas have shown that the lead was deposited onto acid ground with copious amount of rainfall. Our site has been tested for pH and has very alkaline soil and the rainfall is less than 5 inches a year. That means that the lead will not become dissolved into lead salts and will stay in their original chemical form.
    • All the water that comes from the various ranges will be collected into two interior drains where they will go through double settling basins respectively. Any migrant lead will participate out in the first basin. These basins will be tested for lead and if any is found, the basin will be cleaned and the lead removed. This plan and design has been approved by the State Health Department.
    • We will be using biodegradable clay targets. All trash, brass cases, wads, paper, etc. will be removed on a frequent basis by shooting park staff assigned for maintenance, on a daily and weekly basis.
    • The EPA has ruled that lead deposited on a shooting range that stays on the shooting range is not hazardous waste and therefore may be recycled.

    WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ADDRESS THE DUST CREATED FROM ACTIVITY AT THE RANGE?
    • Clark County Air Quality has standards for dust abatement that we must maintain. Some methods of dust control may include: soil stabilizers, berm maintenance, berm matting, vegetation and watering as appropriate to meet air quality standards. All parking areas and roadways are paved to eliminate those as a source of dust.
    • The current homes at Carmel Canyon are located just south of the Las Vegas Formation (Las Vegas Wash) and the detention basin. The Las Vegas Formation is a half-mile wide at this point and consists of fine silt alluvium. This area is highly unstable and is easily disturbed by winds and motor vehicles. Initial assessments show high activity of historical target shooting and related lead deposits in this area. What this means, is when the wind blows, the detention basin generates uncontrolled dust in a magnitude far exceeding any possible dust from the shooting park, which has controlled conditions.

    WHAT ENVIRONMENTAL STUDIES HAVE BEEN COMPLETED?
    • A biological and endangered species study found no endangered plants or animals. Because of the possibility of a Desert Tortoise coming into the area, we have developed a Desert Tortoise maintenance plan based on studies.
    • A paleontologic study looked for the likelihood of significant Paleo resources and found 33 potential sites. The county will now assign a paleontologist and an archeologist to the site whenever any earth is being moved.
    • A State Historic Preservation Office Studies looked for more recent historical cultural resources and found nothing.
    • The US Army conducted flood studies and found two 100-year flood zones.
    • The Regional Flood Control District conducted studies on the site, which helped us formulate our flood control plan.
    • Geotechnical studies including soil pH studies were also conducted.
    • We have a plant salvage operation that will commence before construction that will harvest and save desert plants for reuse in landscaping.
    • During construction there will be monitoring per desert tortoise laws, and an on site archeologist to detect any features before they are disturbed.
    • The shooting park was redesigned to maximize the protection of the Paleolithic area (the Las Vegas Formation). It will be protected and patrolled by Park Police Officers and the current abuses of littering, off road travel, wildcat shooting, repository for stolen vehicles will be eliminated. Also dust issues from off road vehicles will be terminated.
    • The design of the shooting park meets all Clark County Codes for site and environmental construction requirements.

    HOW WILL YOU ENSURE THE SHOOTING IS SAFE?
    • Trained line safety officers will directly supervise all public shooting.
    • Groups and events will provide or have provided line safety officers.
    • Persons not in compliance with safety laws will be cited and removed from the shooting park.
    • On the public ranges, patrons will view a short safety video before being allowed to shoot.

    WILL THERE BE A BAR ON PROPERTY?
    • No!
    • The public rifle/pistol range will have a convenience store where patrons may purchase coffee and other soft drinks.
    • The Shotgun Center will have a cafeteria that will be operated by Nevada Blind Industries.

    WHAT WILL BE YOUR ALCOHOL/DRUG POLICIES?
    • Anyone who is discovered shooting while under the influence of alcohol or drugs will be cited and immediately removed from the property.
    • Event managers will disqualify any persons who may have consumed any alcohol before shooting.
    • Glass containers are prohibited.

    WHAT ARE THE ANTICIPATED TRAFFIC ISSUES?
    • As part of the design, Clark County required a traffic study. In the case of major events, there is a traffic management team and a traffic management plan. The local high school itself will generate a higher traffic load than will the shooting park’s public module.
    • At full build out the shooting park is projected to have some significant events. However it will be 10 to 20 years before the full potential of the shooting park is realized. By that time, the Sheep Mountain Parkway will be constructed. This parkway will generate more noise (90dBA) than the shooting park, and will have an exit at Decatur and Moccasin. Consequently most of the traffic to the shooting park at that time will come from the parkway.
    • The public module is only a small part of the overall master plan and because it has no specific event ranges, it will not generate large crowds of shooters.

    HOW WILL THE SHOOTING PARK RELATE TO THE COMMUNITY?
    • The primary objective of the shooting park is to give the public a safe place to shoot. As such we will be offering firearms safety classes and other programs to enhance firearms safety to the community.
    • Our Education Center has three 30-seat classrooms, and archery, rifle, pistol, shotgun ranges.
    • The Education Center will be the focus point for neighborhood programs for firearms and archery safety and after school programs.
    • We will have archery, rifle/pistol and shogun programs for youth.
    • We will have the Annie Oakley program for women.
    • The shooting park manager, upon request, will be open to meeting with homeowner associations to ensure that relations stay positive.
    • There may be some specific programs developed for local residents.

    WHAT ABOUT THE EQUESTARIAN PARK?
    • The proposed equestrian park, which will be located west of Jones Road, is part of a larger City of Las Vegas Park and recreation area. Its development is waiting on funding from the Southern Nevada Public Lands Management Act.
    • In 2004, the City of Las Vegas completed a Northwest Open Space Plan. It was a comprehensive project with several public hearings and focus groups. The shooting park was part of this plan as well as the Equestrian Park.

    WHAT ABOUT SHADOW RIDGE HIGH SCHOOL
    • Shadow Ridge High School was located, designed and constructed after the shooting park land was acquired. The decision to locate the high school in its present location was made by school authorities.
    • The entrance to Shadow Ridge High School is not from Decatur. Decatur is the back side of the school behind the sports fields.
    • There are no incidents, documented or anecdotal, regarding anyone traveling to a shooting range for practice or competition to stop and shoot at a school. No incidents anywhere.
    • The shooting park will offer educational and sports opportunities for students. Archery is currently on many school sports programs. There is a well-established youth “scholastic clays target” program for youths in Clark County, and several students from Shadow Ridge are already participants.
    • The shooting park will provide for teaching responsible firearms safety and ownership. A program not taught in public schools, and a program that is desperately needed.
    • By the time the park is more developed, most of the visitors will be arriving via the Sheep Mountain Parkway and not on Decatur.
    • Due to the safety standards that occur on a public shooting range and the variety of safety and sports programs that the shooting park will offer, the high school and its students will benefit with the development of a close relationship with the shooting park.

    WHAT IS THE ZONING OF THE SHOOTING PARK?
    • The shooting park is zoned PF for “public facility” by Clark County in 2005. Some people have mistaken the CV zoning of the City of Las Vegas north of La Concha Drive as the zoning of the shooting park. That is in error. The shooting park is further north and is not in the City of Las Vegas zoning. Clark County Zoning includes “shooting range” as a function of the PF zoning.

    WHAT PUBLIC NOTICES HAVE THERE BEEN REGARDING THE SHOOTING PARK?
    • Every monthly meeting of the Shooting Park Advisory Committee has been a noticed public meeting.
    • Public meeting notices are published in the Review-Journal and are posted at County Buildings and on the Web site www.accessclarkcounty.com.
    • The shooting park has been in front of the Clark County Board of County Commissioners at least 18 times, including the zoning planning and change process.
    • It has been the subject of several television stories, and has been featured in local and national magazines, as well as having had feature articles in the Review-Journal and the Las Vegas Sun.
    • It was part of the Northwest Open Space Plan, and the Floyd Lamb park plan, and part of the City’s fire safety and emergency response plan.
    • It was a part of the BLM Conservation Transfer Area public meetings and public focus groups.
    • During the zoning change process, all property owners within a three-quarter mile radius (approximately 3,950 feet) of the proposed zoning change were notified by Clark County.
    • It is identified as a PF (public facility) on the Clark County Web page (determining the zoning of your property).
    • It has been frequently featured in the City news letters to interested residents.

    HOW WAS THE SHOOTING PARK PLANNED?
    • Since before 1984, the shooters of Clark County have demanded a public shooting range. It is the largest metropolitan city in the country to not have a public shooting range. The current site on north Decatur was chosen as the best place for a shooting range.
    • It is estimated that 45% of the households in Clark County own at least one firearm.
    • The concerned citizens, after the accidental fatal shooting of a metro officer by a 13-year-old girl target shooting with her father, convinced the city of Las Vegas to begin planning for a public shooting range in 1996.
    • A detailed chronology is found on the information sheet. All steps along the process to study, acquire, develop and design this site have had well attended public meetings and received numerous magazine and newspaper articles.
    • In 2002, the County Commission appointed a 30-person Citizen Advisory Committee. This committee supported by staff from the County’s Parks & Recreation Department developed the Conceptual Master Plan, and the Financial/Business and Marketing Plan.
    • The Citizen Advisory Committee determined the shooting park’s features and services. Each committee person was selected for his/her knowledge of shooting and as a member or officer of a shooting or public organization.
    • The Clark County Shooting Park is a member of the National Association of Shooting Ranges and a Club Member of the National Rifle Association. Both groups have “best management practices” for shooting ranges. In addition the National Association of Shooting Ranges has a “five star” rating system, which the shooting park has been designed to achieve.
    • The Clark County Shooting Park has committed itself to the “Environmental Stewardship Pledge.” Copies of this document can be found at the shooting park web site.
    • The Public module will disturb 178 acres of desert. At full build out only 900 acres will be developed. However, the shooting park consists of 2,900 acres. That means that 2,000 acres will be managed as a natural area. Its size was obtained in order to provide a buffer (both noise and safety) for the surrounding community.
    • It is bordered on its north and east by the Desert Wildlife Refuge, and on its west by BLM land, most of which is Las Vegas Formation, and on the south by the regional flood control structure. No homes will ever get any closer to the shooting park then they are now.

    WHAT OTHER OUTDOOR SHOOTING RANGES ARE IN LAS VEGAS AND HOW FAR ARE THEIR SHOOTING AREAS FROM RESIDENCES?
    • There are four outdoor shooting ranges in the Las Vegas valley. Two are police ranges and two are private. Until the Clark County Shooting Park is constructed, there are no public ranges in Clark County.
    • The Las Vegas Sportsman Club (private) located on the north end of Durango is 1,108 feet away from a new residential development (2006) and 2,385 feet from an established residence.
    • The Desert Sportsman Club (private) located on West Charleston is 3,286 feet from an established residence, and 3,016 feet from new resident home construction.
    • The Las Vegas Metro Police Range located on East Carrey Avenue is 1,779 feet from nearest residence.
    • The North Las Vegas Police Range located on East Carrey Avenue is 877 feet from their nearest residence.
    • The Clark County Shooting Park (public) located on N Decatur Blvd will be 5,280 feet from the nearest future residential property boundary. Current residences are farther.
    • These distances were taken from the Clark County Zoning Map electronic site.
    • None of these ranges pose safety problems for their local communities.

    PLEASE VISIT OUR WEB SITE AT: www.accessclarkcounty.com for more information.

    Comment by Marie — March 10, 2008 @ 10:16 am

  72. You keep talking and quite like the politicians, all I hear is the same rhetoric and just blah, blah, blah…

    Sheep Mountain Parkway LOL

    ever hear the old saying, one lies and the other swears by it

    that is the code of the politician

    Did U know that so that no complaints about noise could be made against Ben Avery legislation was passed to ensure that there could not be any noise complaints?

    Again, blah, blah, blah…

    Comment by Maz — March 10, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

  73. Marie,

    Unfortunately, you are sadly misinformed. Shadow Ridge High School was under construction before the land was acquired. In addition, Clark County School Board was completely unaware of the shooting park.

    Secondly, the parents of Shadow Ridge High School were never informed & in total disbelief that any educated person would feel this was a good location to construct the World’s Largest Shooting Park.

    It is a shame that our school system is lacking in funding, teachers are under paid & continually losing benefits due to lack of funding, however SNPLMA funds, which allocate a portion to our schools, had millions to construct a shooting range not for the citizens of Clark County but for tourism. We have one of the worst school systems in the nation, millions could have helped the school; yet we are expected to be grateful that we are getting a shooting park.

    We currently do not have any noise, how dare you say it will be only 56 db. Why should that be acceptable? Go borrow the decibel reader, set the above web site to 57 db, play it all day long from 7 am to 7 pm, with the exception of a few nights, which will be to 10 pm, five days a week except on the occasion when there is a private party on those times play it seven days a week. When you leave the office, play it at home, never take a break and tell me, why would you wish this upon anyone? Some of us work from home so there is never a break.

    Last, I find it very odd that every time a park committee member opens their mouth our development gets further away. We have even been told it was moved an additional mile north; however if it was actually moved a mile north, the original location would have included my house.

    Comment by Evelyn — March 11, 2008 @ 10:51 pm

  74. I post this from the point of view of not only as a law enforcement officer, but as a parent that is teaching his 4 children responsibility pertaining to gun ownership and handling of weapons. I have been a Probation Officer for Los Angeles County for 14 1/2 years, and have worked with gangmembers, both adult and juveniles, my entire career. I have worked a wide range of assignments from undercover narcotics, to the gang unit, to residential treatment (incarceration facilities) during my career. One thing that always comes full circle when dealing with gangmembers is the reponsibilty of the parents when raising the child. In the case of shooting park, I feel that the parents that are embellishing their anti-sentiment toward the park really need to look at themselves before saying that a park is going to destroy their family or their community. Do they know where their kids are late at night, or know who the friends of their kids are. Probably not, because the parents are too concerned about themselves and are probably sitting at home getting drunk or high themselves. Parents at the previous meetings dealing with the park issue who made fools of themselves are probably allowing the schools to raise their kids, and when their children make horrific mistakes, they are the ones that always point the fingers at others saying that it was others at fault. One last tidbit on my rant, and please listen very well. The majority of gangmembers fear people who have guns. Gangmembers intimidate people with their guns. So, if you are acosted by a criminal with a gun, don’t blame the police, blame yourself, because if you stood up and asked your politicians to get stricter on violent crimes, especially with gangmembers, then we would not need to have a weapon in our homes to protect ourselves. And yes, I am for the gun park and thanks to Silver State Shooting Association for helping me in betting my children, and their friends, in becoming a more repsonsible person in our American society.

    Comment by steve — March 13, 2008 @ 4:22 am

  75. I just want to say that all too often it only takes a few to ruin things for the great majority. If the shooting park is really all that objectionable, what efforts are the complainants doing to find a positive solution that allows the hundreds of thousands of projected shooting park users to be happy, too? Have we become such a small-minded, selfish society that we have no tolerance nor respect for the public good? So, does that mean we get to destroy the happiness of others because we didn’t do our homework? The complainants remind me of people who buy a house next to an airport and then complain about the noise. They need to be responsible for due diligence themselves before they buy rather than complain that “no one told them” afterwards. Is it okay to break the law because “no one told them”? The shooting park is something we could all be proud of having; a place where we can demystify and learn to respect weapons in the fashion that our forefathers intended when they built this country. We have tens of thousands of “family oriented” towns in the US, but very few playgrounds like Las Vegas. By the same token, we have hundreds of thousands of paranoid gated communities but very few shooting ranges where responsible people can learn respect for weapons.

    Comment by Roger Aldrich — March 13, 2008 @ 8:48 pm

  76. Steve, It is wonderful that you are teaching your children the responsibility of gun ownership, etc…

    However, your comments are quite asinine and come out of leftfield. Please explain how your statements of,
    “Do they know where their kids are late at night, or know who the friends of their kids are. Probably not, because the parents are too concerned about themselves and are probably sitting at home getting drunk or high themselves. Parents at the previous meetings dealing with the park issue who made fools of themselves are probably allowing the schools to raise their kids, and when their children make horrific mistakes, they are the ones that always point the fingers at others saying that it was others at fault. ”

    have anything at all to do with the quality of life issues we are complaining about?

    Maybe you need to find a different blog that discusses family life because your comments have absolutely nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

    Comment by Maz — March 13, 2008 @ 10:35 pm

  77. In response to Evelyn’s post #73

    As to:Shadow Ridge High School.

    Shadow Ridge High School
    Founded: 2004
    Mascot: Mustang
    Colors: Blue & Gold
    1st Grad Class: 2006

    As to:Clark County Shooting Park

    See Public Law 107-350, November 19,2002. Actually about 1:20 AM on the 20th Local time - Washington DC

    Which President G.W Bush signed into Public Law on Jan 23,2003.

    Creating a Shooting Facility for the people of Clark County Nevada… In perpetuity.

    This is a Fact not an Opinion or an Emotional outburst!

    Clark County Schools get much more of the SNPLMA Monies than the CCSP….Only 15% of SNPLMA Monies goes to Recreational purposes.

    Comment by Cal Farnsworth — March 14, 2008 @ 12:12 am

  78. First to Steve - those are great points and I totally agree. To Evelyn in #73 and Maz in #72: all I did was copy the FAQ’s from the website for everyone’s review. If you have an argument with the county on those FAQ’s, take it up with them -